Response from: Richard

Jamie, Your article on Harvard Extension is mistaken with respect to degree admissions. I am a candidate for a Bachelor's degree at Harvard Extension and their model is probably a bit different from what most people imagine college admissions to be. Instead of evaluating prior academic work in high school, HES defers an admission decision to determine if a student can do honors-level work. This is generally the completion of three classes (one of which is a pre-specified writing course) with grades of B- or better. And contrary to your assertion that employers do not consider the Harvard Extension program to be on par with Harvard College or Harvard GSAS, there are many examples of students who earned degrees through HES who went on to graduate work at MIT and Carnegie-Mellon as well as Harvard Law and Harvard Medical School. Furthermore, there is considerable evidence that HES students are highly-prized at some of the B-schools as serious students who are focused and determined. Harvard is a misunderstood organization and your article only adds to the confusion. I respectfully suggest that you take another look at the programs or talk to some students before you pass judgment. I shared a classroom with recent Harvard College graduates and Yale dropouts. One of my classes was taught by a world expert on Greek Literature. I think you'll find that the deeper you look at the program, the less difference there is in the actual education versus the perception the general public has about what "going to Harvard" means. If you need additional information regarding HES, please feel free to contact me.

Response from: Jamie

Hi Richard, Thanks for your comment. If you read the full article, you'll see that I went into the admissions details for programs. It is still true that anyone can take the individual classes as they are completely open-admission. I agree that Harvard Extension students may be "highly prized" at other universities. I don't think the article argues against that. However, I hold with my position that the majority of employers do not view HES degrees as equal to traditional Harvard degrees. I included that because I think it is important for potential students to know. Best,
Jamie

Response from: Richard

I'm sorry but I still think you are misleading people. First, you cite no evidence that employers have any negative bias towards graduates of any of the HES programs. Second, you confuse open-enrollment with open admission. Open enrollment allows for any individual to sign up for classes as opposed to open admission which would indicate that anyone can progress towards a degree without applying. This is not the case. Any student who takes more than 5 classes at HES will find that they will encounter substantial difficulty getting all of their previous coursework to count if they later decide to pursue a degree. Finally, there are many undergraduate and graduate degree programs at Harvard. Not all of them are equal to each other in terms of selectivity or reputation in the academic or commercial sectors. By singling out HES for criticism, you're doing it a disservice. My employer is paying for my education at HES and doesn't seem to think it's any less of a program than any of the others. You should be careful to separate your editorial opinions from neutral reportage. My own personal experience (as well as the experiences of others who work in the private sector) is that when employers learn the details of the HES program, they are more than impressed with both the candidate and the school.

Response from: Catamount

The Harvard Extension School features a more meritocratic process of awarding degrees than most schools in the US. Anyone can take a class. Pass three classes with honors grades and you can apply to a degree program. Keep on getting good grades and you can take classes in the daytime. Keep on doing well and you will get a degree. Not that it is easy. Very few people earn degrees from HES.

Response from: comebackkid

I disagree that the extension degrees are viewed negatively by employers, please seperate facts from your own opinions. Harvard Extension degrees are real, bona fide Harvard degrees, I have emailed the admission office to confirm this. Also, there is nothing dishonest to present a degree as "ALB, Harvard", as Harvard explicitly confirmed that such presentation is acceptable - by calling this presentation as dishonest, are you saying Harvard University actually encourages its students to act dishonestly?

Response from: ALB Candidate

"Individual classes at Harvard Extension School have an open-admissions policy. Degree-seeking undergraduate students must complete at least three Harvard Extension courses with a grade of B- or above, meet the expository writing requirement, have a cumulative GPA of 2.5 or higher, have a GPA of 2.5 or higher during the past semester at Harvard, and be proficient in English. Degree-seeking graduate students must hold a bachelor’s degree, pass three major-specific extension school courses, have an extension school GPA of 3.0 or higher, and be proficient in English." This is errant. An ALB candidate can not have complete the B- requirement as stated with a 2.5 average. The minimum GPA requirement is 3.0 for matriculation. Please double check your facts before you post such errant information

Response from: ALB Candidate

"Interesting Fact:
Although the extension school is part of the university, it is important to note that most employers do not view Harvard Extension School degrees and traditional Harvard degrees as equal. Extension school graduates receive a degree that has “Extension School” written in Latin. According to school policy, graduates do not have to list this detail on their resumes. However, from the employer’s prospective, it is generally considered dishonest not to mention the fact that the degree was earned non-traditionally." Do you have overwhelming evidence to support such a conjecture regarding employers? Jamie, there are students like myself who attend class each semester on campus. We study under Harvard professors; we complete equally difficult work which is present to the College students. The difference? I am raising a family, running a business, and supporting my own education. Yes, I am sure most employers would agree the HES students are not as equal as the College students. We are superior. We work nth time harder, we have nth time more demand on our time, and we complete the same rigorous course load. The truth is only 50 students graduate (on average) from the ALB program each year v the 2,000 which graduate from the College. Which is the easier program to graduate?

Response from: Jamie

ALB Candidate - The information about undergrad admissions is correct. You can find the same info listed on Harvard's website: http://www.extension.harvard.edu/2007-08/programs/undergrad/admit/

Response from: comebackkid

Thank you for the clarification ALB Candidate. It is important to learn the facts. Jamie, why do you keep avoiding the argument? You said "it is generally considered dishonest not to mention the fact that the degree was earned non-traditionally." I asked you for evidents, yet you failed to provide any. I've already confirmed with Harvard that it is perfectly legitimate to list one's qualification as "ALB, Harvard".

Response from: Jamie

Comebackkid, please take another look at the article. I'm not arguing that you cannot list these degrees as coming from Harvard. However, after months of reading about and discussing this issue with employers and former students, I'm convinced that most interviewers find it dishonest not to mention that the degree was earned non-traditionally. I'm not making a judgment about program quality here; I'm just calling it like I see it. Some students even say they're thinking about job-seeking far away from Harvard so that they can find employers who don't know about the extension program. ALB Candidate, You'll notice that the article has all good things to say about Harvard Extension. It discusses the distinguished faculty and the challenging courses. How employers view these degrees is a matter of their perspective and not a put-down. However, I'm not going to agree with you that the extension program is harder than Harvard. I feel that saying HES graduates are seen as "superior" to traditional Harvard students would be a great disservice to the readers. To all: Overall, I stand by my position that Harvard Extension is a great opportunity and that most employers do not view these degrees as equal to traditional Harvard College degrees. I understand that it's a touchy subject and that there can be hurt feelings when matters of prestige are involved. But, not being completely equal to Harvard College doesn't mean that these degrees aren't valuable. I wish current students the best - I'm sure they will continue to make their case, and they are more than welcome to do so. I'm not going to keep posting pages of response to the same arguments. However, if there is a current/former student interested in writing a guest post about his experiences with the program, I'd be open to it. That may be a fair way to share a dissenting viewpoint publicly. Drop me a line if you're interested: jamielittlefield@yahoo.com

Response from: michelle

ALB Harvard is incorrect. The proper designation is ALB in Extension Studies at Harvard University.
Are the ALB students able to particpate in the same career counseling and campus recruiting opportunities as the other undergrads? Have any obtained internships or employment at the top IB or Consulting firms? Have any gone to Harvard Business School? The one extension school student who went to MIT for grad school was originally an undergrad at MIT and someone who worked as a researcher at an MIT research lab for many years, so this doesn't really represent a student who with only the experience offered at HES. It would be useful to compare HES to the General Studies program at Columbia or similar programs for degree completion or part-time study instead of attempting to make HES appear to be on par with Harvard College. Also, it would be useful to have information related to HES compared to lower tier undergraduate colleges.

Response from: Ali

I cannot speak on behalf of all employers and my comments do not necessarily apply to all HES students, but the one Harvard Extension ALM graduate in Information Technology that I hired as a consultant at the United Nations was definitely of higher practical competence than most of my Harvard College Graduate Student friends (of which I have over 30) including those at KSG, HBS and FAS. We normally receive between 550-600 applications for each consultancy position, so the competition can be quite tough. As a disclosure, I obtained my Ph.D. at MIT so I have no particular bias either way. Here is at least one perspective, and might be helpful to people. My general point is not to endorse HES but to refute the point that employers simplistically make a decision based on whether a person is an HES or Harvard College graduate.

Response from: Namik Kemal

Yesterday, i asked my daughter if she is interesting in for enroling Undergraduate Degree Program of HES. Due to the argues of Extension School is Harvard or not, there is no way to feel herself good at HES and to be happy there; she will be in the same airplane with the Harvard College students maybe, but, her place will be on the economy class, not on the first class as Harvard College students keep; she will look for another airplane which she could keep a place on the first class, she said.
I think i do understand her.

Response from: Rita & Maria

Superb. What a medical diagnosis of the psychology of the Students at Extension School.
Thank you, Namik Kemal. It is a great
interpretation.

Response from: Jenny

I am an AB Candidate.
The comment of Namik Kemal disclosures what HES students feel to seek for a reduced degree.
Congratulations Namik Kemal.

Response from: Sharon

Wow, tough crowd. Jamie dear, this has been a bit like watching a Killer bee attack. They came from everywhere and seemed wildly upset about nothing in particular. Ah, but you maintained composure while running for the car. Basically people-and this is non-negotiable-all things being equal, we'd ALL prefer Harvard over HES. Let's be honest. But we're not 18 or 21 anymore. We work, we have kids, we're savvy and on a budget, we don't have patience for the tediousness of the "experience", and we can't be bothered to worry about the crowd at the flat-eyed crowd at the country club. HES is Harvard for the rest of us. It's a solid invite to a world-class institute to access interesting courses, a few straight-ahead degrees, and passionate like-minded folks who love to teach as much as they love to learn, but sadly it's not the Harvard experience (insert heavenly chorus here). And please, HES isn't "economy class" education. You're hung up on branding, Namik. Forget about that nonsense, and appreciate the easy access to superior education. As to the tit for tat argument of HES student vs. Harvard student. Who cares. Dummies are credentialized everyday, and geniuses die unrecognized. Do your best, ignore the rest.